Monday, January 13, 2014

Rwanda : Ikiganiro Ministre Louise Mushikiwabo yagiranye n’abanyamakuru ku rupfu rwa Patrick Karegeya

Kigali, tariki ya 6 Mutarama 2014
Kanda hano wumve amagambo ya Louise Mushikiwabo
(Kuva ku munota wa 6:45 kugeza ku munota wa 22: 55)
 
Umunyamakuru : Minister, ubwo twese twamenye inkuru y’uko umugabo witwa Karegeya wigeze gukorera Leta y’u Rwanda, yari amaze n’igihe ari impunzi muri Afurika y’epfo ko yishwe kuri Bonne année nk’uko tubyumva, ahantu muri hotel Sandton. Kugeza ubungubu abagize icyo babivugaho ibyo ari byo byose barareba, bavuga u Rwanda ko rushobora kuba rufitemo uruhare. Kugeza ubungubu u Rwanda ntiruragira icyo rusubiza kuri ibyongibyo. Mwebwe turi kumwe ubungubu mwatubwira uko u Rwanda rubibona kandi uwo muntu Karegeya ahari ni ukwibutsa ni umuntu ki ? Ni ku zihe mpamvu se umuntu yaje kuba impunzi kandi yarakoreraga Leta ?
 
Ministre : Ni byo, ayo makuru y’iyicwa rya Patrick Karegeya wari warahungiye muri Afurika y’epfo natwe twarayumvise turayakurikira ; mu itangazamakuru hamaze iminsi bayavugaho. Icya mbere nifuza gusobanura ni uko uyu mugabo, sinzi niba abantu benshi baragiye babikurikira kuko we ku giti cye yagiye abivuga cyane mu itangazamakuru, mu maradiyo mpuzamahanga ndetse n’ahandi. Uyu mugabo ni umuntu mu by’ukuri wigeze gukorera u Rwanda mu kazi k’iperereza, akuriye ibiro bikuru bishinzwe iperereza, aza guhunga igihugu ahakoze amakosa akomeye, harimo no kugambanira igihugu. Icyo, ikizwi cyane muri urwo rwego, ni ikibazo cy’umuntu ushakishwa, uregwaho genocide witwa Félicien Kabuga. Bikaba byaravuzwe cyane igihe yahungaga igihugu, ko mu by’ukuri yari ameze nk’ushaka kumvikana na Kabuga ndetse n’aba n’umuryango we, birimo, no gutanga amafaranga, kwakira amafaranga, ashakisha uburyo yagerageza kumukuraho cyangwa se, sinzi ko icyaha cya génocide ari we ukigukuraho ariko ni nko kugerageza kumufasha kuva muri ibyo bibazo.
 
Umunyamakuru : Cyangwa kudafatwa
 
Ministre : Cyangwa kudafatwa kuko arashakishwa hashize imyaka myinshi cyane. Mbese ni nk’ubwumvikane yaba yaragiranye ku bijyanye n’umuntu uzwi neza ho, ndetse n’ibihugu by’amahanga biramushakisha kuko muzi neza ko Leta Zunze Ubumwe z’Amerika zanatanze, zashyizeho amafaranga miliyoni 5 z’amadolari ku muntu wabafasha kubona uwo mugabo. Murumva rero mu kazi umuntu ushinzwe iperereza waba yinjiye mu kintu nk’icyo, akava mu kazi mu gihugu, ni icyaha gikomeye cyane. Ikindi ni uko uyu mugabo Karegeya, ni umuntu ahangaha ndifuza ko abatwumva basobanukirwa neza. Iyo umuntu ahagurutse akavuga y’uko agiye kurwanya akoresheje uburyo bushoboka bwose cyane cyane harimo guteza imvururu mu gihugu, gukoresha amahane no kwica abantu. Ibyo yarabyivugiye, ibyo yarabyivugiye. Yavuze y’uko ahagurutse agiye kurwanya igihugu. Igihugu na cyo kigomba kumurwanya. Ni ko bimeze. Ntabwo ushobora kwibaza ngo ndahagurutse, ndanabivuze ku maradiyo hirya no hino ndetse mbishyize no mu bikorwa, ngiye gukora ku buryo iki gihugu ngiteza imvururu kitazikuramo nkoreshe ibishoboka byose kugira ngo n’ubuyobozi bw’iki gihugu buveho kandi buveho nabi mu buryo bw’intambara. Urumva rero iyo umuntu avuze ikintu nk’icyo, ubwongubwo aba yiyemeje kuba umwanzi w’igihugu, ko agiye kukirwanya, ayo ni amagambo yivugiye.
 
Umunyamakuru : Ibyo ari byose birumvikana ko agiye guhangana.
 
Ministre : Ndizera ko abantu benshi bumva ko aba yiyemeje ko agiye guhangana. Hari ukuntu rero muri aya makuru amaze iminsi usanga harimo ikintu cyo ku.., cyane cyane bamwe mu banyarwanda bari mu mahanga benshi bamaze iminsi babivugaho ariko n’itangazamakuru mpuzamahanga hirya no hino ; ni nk’aho umuntu azahaguruka akavuga ngo nje gusenya u Rwanda ariko u Rwanda rwo nk’igihugu, rukamutegera amaboko, rukamwakira. Ntago bishoboka. Wiyemeje kurwanya igihugu, igihugu kirakurwanya. Ndashaka no kubibutsa neza ko wabajije ikibazo kiri cyo. Ariko ubundi uyu muntu ni muntu ki ? Ni nk’aho abantu bakangutse bakavuga ngo hari umunyarwanda wiciwe muri Afurika y’epfo. Uyu mugabo yari umugabo mubi cyane. Mu bijyanye no ku…, iyo migambi ye ni yo yari yaravuze yo kurwanya igihugu. Mu minsi ishize byaravuzwe mu itangazamakuru ariko ni byo, njyewe ndabyemeza nk’umuvugizi wa Leta kandi nk’umuntu ukurikirana iby’abanzi b’igihugu bakorera hanze mu mahanga. Kuba umuntu w’umunyarwanda, icyaba cyaramukuye mu gihugu cyose, yiyemeza gukorana n’interahamwe, agafatanya na zo, akaziha uburyo bwo gutuma zaza hano mu gihugu ; byarabaye, inshuro nyinshi cyane, FDLR igatera grenades hano mu gihugu, ikica abana b’abanyarwanda, sinzi niba mwibuka umwana w’umukobwa w’imyaka 16 wishwe na grenade hano mu gihugu !! Ni rero byiza ko abantu batandukanya umuntu n’igihugu. Iyo ukurikiranye igihugu ukakigirira nabi, uba ugirira nabi abenegihugu. Icyo kintu rero ndizera yuko gisobanuka cyane.
 
Umunyamakuru : Ariko ushobora kutubwira, ni ukuvuga ko Leta yatangiye guhangana n’uwo mugabo Karegeya ? Uwo mwariho muhangana na we ? Ni ukukubaza kuko iyo mubivuze gutya, ni ukuvuga ko se ari Leta y’u Rwanda yagiye kumutera hariya yo hepfo ?
 
Ministre : Urumva, ntabwo twebwe u Rwanda dushinzwe ibiba ku bantu bari mu bindi bihugu, ibyo ntibitureba. Igihe habaye ikibazo mu gihugu hano, dufite inzego zibishinzwe turabikurikirana. Ariko icyo nshaka gusobanura nta n’ubwo, nta n’ingufu tubishyizemo kuko ntabwo, uyu ni umuntu wari wariyemeje kurwanya igihugu cyacu. Ntabwo rero, kuko iyo usoma itangazamakuru cyane cyane itangazamakuru mpuzamahanga, hari n’ikintu ndetse navuga y’uko ari ugusuzugura abanyafurika n’ubwoko bw’abirabura kuko kuvuga ngo uyu muntu ntabwo yari yishimiye ubuyobozi bw’u Rwanda, arapfuye ubwo ubuyobozi ni bwo bwamishe. Ibyo ni ibintu usanga bijya muri ya mitekerereze yo kuvuga ko muri Afurika abayobozi bose ni abicanyi, umuntu wese urwanyije ubuyobozi muri Afurika ni we uba ufite ukuri abandi baba bari mu makosa. Ibyo na byo ni ikintu abanyarwanda bakwiye kwitondera cyane. Kuko ntabwo kurwanya Leta bihita bikugira umutagatifu cyangwa se umuntu w’umwere. Ntabwo ari uko bikwiye kumera. Ikindi, niba umuntu apfuye, ubundi turizera ko itangazamakuru, nk’uko abakora iperereza babigenza bashakisha icyaba gishobora kuba, ari mu buzima bwe, ari mu mibereho ye, ari mu nshuti ze, aho kumwica byaba byaturutse. Ariko ikintu cyo kuvuga ugahita usimbuka ngo u Rwanda rwaramushakishije, yaciriwe imanza, yaciriwe imanza kubera amakosa yakoreye mu gihugu. Icyo kintu rero na cyo ni ikibazo kuko umuntu hashize igihe nk’uko nabivugaga yisobanurira we uko yifuza gusenya kino gihugu, avuga y’uko afite abandi bafatanyije muri parti, iyo parti twe ntituyizi kuko ntabwo mu Rwanda ntihaba, ntabwo ari parti twavuga ngo iba hano mu gihugu, ikora itya. Tuyumva gutyo hirya no hino mu mahanga ntabwo ikorera mu Rwanda. Abakurikirana bazanareba ndetse bitegereze barebe ukuntu iyo groupe y’abo banyarwanda b’abagizi ba nabi baba mu mahanga, ubundi bo babanye bate ? Kuko byagiye binagaragara no ku zindi, abandi biyita ko bafite amaparti arwanya Leta y’u Rwanda n’ubuyobozi bw’u Rwanda, bafitemo amakimbirane menshi cyane. Iyo ubikurikiranye inama zabo ziba ku mugaragaro harimo abantu benshi ; iyo ubikurikiranye usanga ari bantu bafitanye ibibazo bikomeye cyane na bo hagati yabo. Hari mbese n’ako kazi yakoze mu Rwanda. Hari kuba yaragiye muri icyo gihe cyose, ari muri izo deals ni ko navuga nk’icyongicyo nabasobanuriye cyabaye ikosa rikomeye mu kazi yakoraga hano mu Rwanda cyo gushaka kugira umwere umugenocidaire kugira ngo havemo amafaranga. Ibintu nk’ibyongibyo byose urabireba, uti : ariko uyu muntu ubundi, ni muntu ki ? Ni nde waba yifuza y’uko yamukuraho ku isi ? Kuvuga rero ngo umuntu ararwanya u Rwanda, u Rwanda ni rwo.., ibyo ni ibintu umuntu aganira mu kabari gutyo ntabwo ari ibintu bifatika bikwiye kuza mu itangazamakuru. Gushaka kutareba ikibazo cy’uko niba mukurikira neza muri abanyamakuru muzasanga ko abantu bafitanye ikibazo n’iyi Leta y’u Rwanda biyemeje ko buri kantu kose kabaye bagomba kukarega u Rwanda. Ubu nta kintu ino Leta itaregwa kibaho, bigaturuka mu bantu bamwe buri gihe. Abo bantu bafite inyungu zabo, bafite inyungu zabo. Umuntu arapfa mu bitaro, bati Leta y’u Rwanda yamwishe, umuntu yajya mu kabari yarwana yakomereka bati abakozi ba Leta y’u Rwanda ni bo bamukurikiranye. Ibyo rero na byo, abantu bajye basobanukirwa neza, ntabwo, nibaza ko ibikorwa by’iyi Leta biragaragara ntabwo abantu bakwiye kugwa muri uwo mutego habaye iki, abakozi ba Leta bakoze iki cyane cyane abanyarwanda benshi ari bafite kuba bifuza kwibera mu mahanga n’abafite amakosa akomeye bakoze hano mu gihugu, icyo kintu cy’uko umuntu ashobora guhungabanya umutekano w’igihugu ariko akaba ari we ushaka kugaragara nk’umwere na byo ntabwo bisobanutse, ntabwo ari byo. Ibyo rero nka Leta y’u Rwanda ni uko tubibona.
Umunyamakuru : Ikindi kintu gitangaje, ni uko twumvise muri iyi minsi ko uretse umuryango we, hari abandi bantu bavuze ko bababajwe n’urupfu rwa Karegeya, abantu bitwa FDLR bigaragaza ko koko hari ukuntu bisa nk’aho nk’abageze kure mu gutera…
 
Ministre : Sinzi niba mu itangazamakuru mwarabivuze mukabiganiraho, ariko iyo FDLR yatanze n’itangazo ry’akababaro, ryo kwifatanya na we, rigaragaza ko yari umuntu w’intwari wabo. Mwumva se umuntu w’intwari ya FDLR mu Rwanda afite uwuhe mwanya ? Ku buryo Leta y’u Rwanda nisobanure. Afite aho ahagaze, afite ibyo yiyemeje. Urarwanya igihugu, igihugu kirakurwanya. Nta kundi bigomba kugenda.
 
Umunyamakuru : Ariko ubwo nyine mugashimangira y’uko yari umwanzi w’igihugu wapfuye, ariko mu gupfa kwe ntaho byari bihuriye na Leta y’u Rwanda.
 
Ministre : Leta y’u Rwanda, nta n’ubwo bitureba kuko ntiyapfiriye hano. Iyo aza gupfira hano mu Rwanda, hari inzego zibishinzwe. Inzego rero zishinzwe gukurikirana abapfa cyangwa se n‘andi makosa aba mu gihugu, biri mu gihugu arimo. Twebwe rero kutubaza ngo Leta y’u Rwanda, Leta y’u Rwanda ntabwo akazi kacu…
 
Umunyamakuru : Ibyo twumva ni abandi barega Leta y’u Rwanda. Mbese mu magambo yandi, ntabwo byari kuri gahunda yo kumwica, ntabwo byari muri za gahunda za Leta.
 
Ministre : Uretse, byaba kuri gahunda bitaba kuri gahunda icyo mvuga, ubundi se nka Leta njyewe undwanyije nabuzwa n’iki kukurwanya ?
 
Umunyamakuru : Ni byo.
 
Ministre : Yeee ! Uko yapfuye n’uwamwishe, ibyo igihugu arimo kirabikurikirana. Ariko njyewe nkurikirana nka Leta, njyewe nzatega amaboko nguhobere ? Nanjye ngomba kugukurikirana kuko ahangaha ni ho nabanje gusobanura ko Leta ni igihugu, ni ubuyobozi bw’igihugu n’abenegihugu. Ubu se abanyarwanda bo bapfuye muri izi grenades ziterwa hano aka gaco kabo karimo uyu mugabo wapfuye, bakorana mu buryo bugaragara buzwi, bufite inyandiko, bufite impapuro buzwi, ndetse nibaza ko na FDLR kuba imukorera itanga pole ikamukorera ikiriyo imushima nk’intwari ibyo byonyine birahagije kukwereka aho uyu mugabo yari ageze. Njyewe se nka Leta y’u Rwanda, byaba bindebaho iki yapfa yakira niba arwanya iki gihugu akarwanya abanyarwanda, akaba yashyigikira, agafasha mu buryo bufatika abantu baza muri iki gihugu kwica abanyarwanda. Ubuyobozi bw’u Rwanda, bushinzwe kurinda abanyarwanda bari muri iki gihugu. Simbona impamvu natandukanya Mudacumura na Karegeya. Kuko Mudacumura ni umukuru w’interahamwe, arazwi, ari hariya muri Congo, arashakishwa ; uwo bakora ibikorwa bimeze kimwe kuki namufata mu bundi buryo ? Njyewe ahongaho ndizera ko cyane cyane abanyarwanda, itangazamakuru ryo rikunda ibintu nk’ibyo bidasobanutse birimo gushaka guhanganisha n’iki ariko kuba na none harimo ikintu cyo gu…kuko iyo ukomeje gusoma ano makuru, amakuru ni amwe barasubiramo ibintu bimwe bidafite aho biva n’aho bijya : Abanyafurika ni abicanyi, umuntu wese urwanyije Leta y’Afurika ni we uba ufite ukuri, ibyo ntabwo ari byo, ntabwo ari byo. Twebwe rero muri Leta y’u Rwanda ni uko tubibona.
 
Interview-Mushikiwabo-urupfu rwa Karegeya

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