Rwanda: Ikiganiro Mme Victoire Ingabire Umuhoza yagiranye na Radiyo Ijwi Ry’Afrika Kigali FM
Ikiganiro Mme Victoire
Ingabire Umuhoza yagiranye na
Radiyo Ijwi Ry’Afrika Kigali
FM , tariki ya 21 Mutarama, 2010.
VOA-KFM: Tubahaye ikaze muri studio za Voice
of Africa Kigali FM (VOA-KFM). Njye nitwa Ildephonse Sinobabariraga.
Nkora mu ishami ry’amakuru. Ngirango nifuzako mwatangira mutwibwira.
IUV: Murakoze kuba namwe mwantumiye muri studio yanyu. Nitwa
Ingabire Umuhoza Victoire (IUV). Nkaba ndi umuyobozi w’ishyaka FDU-Inkingi
ritarandikwa hano mu gihugu ariko nkaba naraje kuryandikisha.
VOA-KFM: Ngirango, mwaje mu Rwanda mumaze
igihe kingana iki muruvuyemo?
IUV: Ngarutse mu Rwanda nyuma y’imyaka
cumi n’itandatu nari maze ntarubamo.
VOA-KFM: None ngirango nyuma y’imyaka cumi
n’itandatu umuntu ataba mu gihugu ni imyaka myinshi cyane. Mukiri i Buraya hari
uburyo mwumvaga u Rwanda n’ubu noneho mumaze icyumweru murubamo mwaba hari
ubundi buryo mumaze kurubona. Ibyo bintu mwabitugereranyiriza gute?
IUV: Mu by’ukuri urebye nasanze uko
narutekerezaga ndi i Buraya n’uko narusanze ari kimwe. Icyo navuga yenda ni uko
nasanze umujyi wa Kigali waragutse ukagera hirya. Ejo nari ku Gisenyi. Nasanze
umujyi wa Gisenyi warashaje, n’imihanda yarashaje, ariko mu by’ukuri nko ku
bibazo bireba igihugu, amakuru twabonaga turi i Burayi ni nako twasanze hano mu
gihugu ahari kuko naje koko kuwa Gatandatu ariko urebye uko abantu bavuga
ukareba n’abo nagiye mpura n’abo kuko ku Cyumweru nanyarukiye i Kabgayi i
Gitarama hanyuma ejo nari ku Gisenyi, usanga ibibazo abantu bavuga uko
twabibonaga turi i Burayi ninako n’imbere mu gihugu bimeze. Akaba ari nayo
mpamvu yatumye dufata icyemezo cyo kuza gukorera politiki mu gihugu kuko
dusanga ko ari ngombwa ko abanyarwanda twese hamwe dufatanyiriza hamwe kuzamura
igihugu cyacu.
VOA-KFM: Ibyo bibazo by’ingenzi muvuga
mwabonaga muri i Burayi n’ubu mukaba muvuga ko aho mugereye mu gihugu musanga
bigihari ni nk’ibihe?
IUV: Ni ibibazo bijyanye n’ubwoba.
Ubwoba kandi mvuga njye ko bufite ishingiro. Hari ubwoba bw’uko abanyarwanda
batinya kuvuga icyo batekereza, uko babona ibibazo. Ubwo bwoba akenshi ugasanga
buturuka ku makuba yagwiriye u Rwanda: itsembabwoko ryakorewe abatutsi muri
1994, hari ubwicanyi bwakorewe abahutu. Ibyo bintu ugasanga ndetse ari ibintu
bataratinyuka kuvugaho. Kuko nabonye uko nabivuze nkigera mu gihugu, n’uburyo
hari ibinyamakuru byinshi byihutiye kwandika ibyo ntavuze, ngasanga ari ikibazo
gikomeye. Nk’uko nabivuze nasanze mu Rwanda ikibazo dufite gikomeye nyuma y’ako
kaga kagwiriye u Rwanda ari ikibazo cy’ubwiyunge. Kuba inzira y’ubwiyunge
itaratangira mu Rwanda nyuma y’imyaka 16 habaye itsembabwoko ry’abatutsi n’ibyo
bikorwa by’ihonya ry’ikiremwa muntu byabaye hano mu Rwanda ubwo bwiyunge bukaba
butaratangira nibyo ntandaro y’uko abantu bafite ubwoba. Hari ubwoba bwo kuvuga
ko ngomba gukora uko nshoboye nkirwanaho ntavaho nzira icyo ndicyo, ntavaho
nzira uwo ndiwe. Hakaba n’abandi bafite ubwoba bwo kuvuga bati ntabwo ntinyuka
kuvuga batavaho babinziza. Ni ubwo bwoba nabonye mu bantu. Akaba ariyo mpamvu
usanga ibinyamakuru byandika ugasanga
byanditse ibyo umuntu atavuze. Ni ubwo bwoba abantu bafite, kandi bufite
ishingiro. Aribwo bwoba bavuga. Usanga hari abandi bavuga bakwihererana
wababaza ibibazo bakakubwira bati ntacyo twavuga niyo tuvuze turabizira. Ku
buryo rero usanga ari ibibazo bikomeye. Ndafata nk’urugero. Nk’ejo nasuye
abagororwa bari muri prison yo ku Gisenyi. Muri abo bagororwa twahuye nabo
navugako harimo ibice binyuranye. Hari abagororwa bavuga bati icyaha
cy’itsembabwoko koko twaragikoze. Nanjye nababwiye y’uko niba koko barakoze
icyaha cy’itsembabwoko ibihano bahawe bigomba kubaha akanya ko gutekereza no
kumva ibyo byaha bakoze no kumva ko kizira ko umuntu avutsa undi ubuzima bwe.
Ko bigomba kubabera isomo. Ariko hari n’abandi bagororwa bambwiye bati tumaze
imyaka 7 dufunze nta dosiye ihari. Ukumva ko iki ari ikibazo gikomeye ko ahantu
hari ubutegetsi mu gihugu hari ubutegetsi bw’ubutabera umuntu bamufunga imyaka
irindwi batarashobora kubona ibimenyetso by’uko uwo muntu yakoze icyaha koko.
Abantu nk’abo ngabo ntabwo ibintu biba byumvikana. Byerekana imikorere mibi
itagenda neza. Ikindi hari n’abandi bavuze bati twafunzwe tuzizwa
ingengabitekerezo. Hari umugabo wambwiye ati isambu yanjye bayubatsemo
imidugugu batambwiye, nta nyishyu bampaye. Ibyo byanteye ikibazo. Mu gihe
mbajije bahita bavuga ko ubwo nzanye ingebitekerezo ya jenoside baramfunga.
Urumva ko hari ibibazo byinshi biterwa n’imyumvire mibi ariko iteka ukagaruka
ugasanga ari ibibazo bituruka kuri cya kibazo twagize cy’intambara ikomeye,
cy’ubwicanyi bukomeye bwabaye hagati y’abanyarwanda. Twebwe rero tukavuga tuti
ibintu bigomba kwongera gutangirira ku ntangiriro. Ni ngombwa ko abanyarwanda
dushirika ubwoba tukagira ubutwari bwo gutinyuka kuvuga ku byatubayeho. Ni
ukuvuga ko ubutegetsi bahari bugomba kureka abantu bakabivuga. Kuko nabonye
inyandiko zanditswe kenshi n’itangazamakuru rya leta mu by’ukuri ryanditse
rikavuga ibyo ntavuze. Ugasanga ari uburyo mu by’ukuri ubwo butegetsi buhari
burimo bukoresha kugirango bubuze abantu kuvuga. Kuvuga kugirango bavaho bavuga
kuko wenda ikibabeshejeho n’icyo kinyoma bashingikiraho babwira abantu bati
habaye itsembabwoko ntimubumbure umunwa ngo muvuge. Ntabwo ibyo bintu rero
aribyo. Dutekereza ko igihe rero kigeze nyuma y’imyaka 16 iryo tsembabwoko
ribaye mu gihugu cyacu ko abanyarwanda dutinyuka kuvuga kubyatubayeho. Habayeho
itsembabwoko ry’abatutsi. Abarikoze bagomba kubihanirwa nk’uko ejo nabibwiye
abanyururu nasuye. Abatararikoze ntabwo bagomba guhozwa ibyo batakoze. Abantu
b’inzirakarengane bagomba gufungurwa. Ariko noneho bigatuma n’abanyarwanda muri
rusange bongera kubaho mu bwisanzure mu gihugu cyabo. Ni ngombwa rero ko ibyo
bintu tubivugaho.Ni ngombwa ko nk’abanyarwanda mu bitekerezo dufite binyuranye,
mu moko anyuranye tuvamo mu madini anyuranye tuvamo, twemera ko tugomba kwicara
hamwe tukumvikana ni mpamvu ki ubwo bwicanyi bwabaye, ni bande babikoze, twakora
iki kugirango ubwo bwicanyi butazongera kubaho. Noneho icyo gihe ibyo
bizadufasha kwumvikana uburyo twateza imbere igihugu cyacu. Kuko ntabwo ubwoba
nabonye mu bantu, n’imyumvire y’abantu uko imeze, ishobora gutuma abanyarwanda
batera imbere. N’ibyo turi kwubaka ubu ngubu twaba turi kwubaka k’umusenyi,
n’ejo n’ejobundi byakongera bigasenyuka kuko iyo urebye imitima y’abantu
n’ibibazo/intambara bafite mu mitima yabo kubera icyo kibazo kugeza ubu ng’ubu
gisa n’aho bababwira ngo mucyubikeho ntimukivuge ugasanga bishobora guteza
ibibazo mu minsi iri imbere.
Twebwe muri FDU tukavuga tuti rero abanyarwanda
muri rusange tugomba gutinyuka icyo kibazo tukakivuga kugirango dutangire
inzira y’ubwiyunge, kugirango dutangire gushakira ubumwe hamwe. Cyane icyo
twifuza ni uko nk’abanyepolitiki tugiye hamwe tukavugana icyo kibazo dushake
inzira igihugu cyacu cyayoborwa. Kuko n’ubwo bwicanyi bwose bwaturutse ku
miyoborere mibi y’igihugu. Niba twumvikanye rero uburyo hagiyeho inzego
z’ubuyobozi, uburyo abantu bajya mu nzego z’ubuyobozi, ibyo bizatuma n’ibura
ubwo bwicanyi butazongera kubaho. Ibyo bizaha abaturarwanda icyizere ko
ubutegetsi buriho bubabereyeho, atrai ubutegetsi bubereyeho agatsiko aka n’aka,
atari ubutegetsi bubereyeho ubwoko ubu n’ubu, atari ubutegetsi bubereyeho
akarere aka n’aka, ariko ari ubutegitsi bubereyeho buri munyarwanda wese, ku
buryo buri munyarwanda wese abwisangamo, umunyrwanda ntiyongere gutinya kuvuga
mu gihugu cye.
VOA-KFM: Ariko ikibazo kimwe. Ibyo ni bimwe
unenga uvuga ko bitagenda. Ariko noneho bimwe mu byo wavuga wageze mu Rwanda
ushima mu myaka 16 jenoside ibaye noneho byaba byassrakozwe na leta iriho ni
nk’ibihe?
IUV: Ndumva ako atari akazi kanjye ko
gushima leta iriho. Bafite abantu babo babishinzwe bo kubavugira. Ndumva atari
akazi kanjye. Twe icyatuzanye mu gihugu ni ugukora polilitiki yo gukosora ibyo
tubona bitagenda neza. Naho abo kuvuga ibigwi ubutegetsi buriho, bafite abantu
babo ndumva aribo bazabavuga ibigwi.
VOA-KFM: Ngirango noneho tugere ku kibazo
cy’ishyaka ryanyu FDU-Inkingi. Ni ishyaka ryari risanzwe rikorera hanze muvuga
ko muje kuryandikisha. Ndetse ngirango mwanatangaje ko muteganya kuzaba
umukandida mu matora ya perezida wa repubulika muhagariye ishyaka ryanyu. Ubu
mu cyumweru mumaze mu gihugu mwaba mwari mwatangira inzira zo kugira ngo
mushake uburyo muryandikisha? Mwaba mwiteguye se ko rizemerwa mu minsi ya vuba?
IUV: Murakoze. Muri iyi minsi ya mbere
icyo nifuje nk’uko nabivuze nagiye i Kabgayi nagiye ku Gisenyi, nteganaya no
kujya hirya no hino, ni ukubanza kureba mu gihugu wa mugani isura y’urugo.Wenda
ndavuga nkurikije ibyo nabonye muri utwo duce tubiri maze kugendamo, ariko
yenda ninjya ahandi nzahasanga ibindi. Ni byiza rero twifuje ko iminsi ya mbere
umuntu yabanza kureba mu by’ukuri aho igihugu kigeze wa mugani, n’ibyo bibazo
uko biri hanyuma nyuma umuntu akaraba uko yafatanya n’abanyarwanda bari hano mu
gihugu tugashaka uburyo twasaba ko ishyaka ryacu ryakwandikwa. Ubundi amategeko
avuga ko ishyaka ryemerwa mu gihe cy’ukwezi kumwe n’ubwo kugeza ubu bigaragara
ko atariko bimeze kuko nafata urugero kuri ririya shyaka riharanira ibidukikije
na demokarasi mu Rwanda (Green Party). Iyo urebye igihe rimaze risabye
kwandikwa n’ingorane ryagiye rihura nazo, usanga natwe twiteguye ko izo ngorane
dushobora kuzahura nazo. Ariko tukaba tuzeye ko ubutegetsi , abafite ubutegetsi
bagomba kumva ko igihe kigeze cyo gushimangira amahame ya demokrasi mu Rwanda.
Ntabwo abantu bashobora gukomeza kuvuga ngo kubera ko mu Rwanda habaye
itsembabwoko ntabwo amarembo ya politiki afunguye. Kuko bagomba kumva ko iryo
tsembabwoko ryabayeho kubera ko hari abantu bari bihariye ubutegetsi ntibashake
guha rugari abandi, ntibashake guha abandi urubuga, ngo abantu bisanzure. Nkaba
ntekereza ko ubutegetsi buriho ubu ibyo bubibona, bubyumva, budashobora gukora
ikosa nk’iryo abandi bakoze, ngo fungirane abantu bukomeze bufunge amarembo,
bubuze abantui kwisanzura cyangwa gukora politiki uko babyumva. Nkaba nizera
rero ntashidikanya ko ishyaka ryacu rizandikwa kuko nta mpamvu mbona kugeza ubu
ngubu ishyaka ritazandikwa.
VOA-KFM: Kandi wavuze ko nk’ishyaka Green
Party uvuga ko ryo rigiye kumara igihe kirenze ukwezi ritaremerwa. Ikikwemeza
ko ishyaka ryawe rizemerwa mu gihe kigeze k’umwezi cyangwa kirenzeho gatoya ni
ikihe?
IUV: Nta cyemezo mfite ariko nta n’ubwo
nshaka gucira urubanza abashinzwe kwandika ishyaka, ngo mvuge ngo
ntibazanyemerera kandi ntarasaba urwo ruhushya. Ibyo byaba ari ugucira urubanza
ku bintu badahari. Igihe bazaba banze kuryandika, bazasobanura impamvu banze
kuryandika. Icyo gihe yenda twazabivugaho. Ariko ubu ng’ubu nemeza ko nta
mpamvumvu n’imwe mbona batakwandika ishyaka, nta n’impamvu mbona nacira
urubanza abantu ubu ngubu mvuga ngo ntimuzaryandika.
VOA-KFM: Tukiri kuri iki cy’ishyaka uretse
wowe waje kuryandikisha nk’umuntu urihagarariye hano mu Rwanda ukaza ukaza kuryandikisha
umuntu yakwibaza ati se abandi muri kumwe nk’ishyaka nabo barahari cyangwe se
nabo barateganya kuza mu Rwanda cyangwa se niwowe gusa waje kwandikisha ishyaka
ubundi rikaba ryakorera yo?
IUV: Ndagirango nibutse ko abantu
twazanye, nazanye n’abantu bane ntabwo naje ndi njyenyine ariko hari abandi
barwanashyaka basigaye inyuma ku mpamvu twakunze nazo kuvuga mu minsi yashize
kubera ko abenshi ari impunzi, basabye impapuro z’inzira zo kugirango babashe
kugaruka mu gihugu cyabo kugeza ubu izo mpapuro ntiziraboneka. Nkaba nizera ko
mu minsi iri imbere tuzajya kureba abantu bashinzwe abinjira n’abasohoka
tukababaza impamvu abo bantu batarahabwa impapuro z’inzira. Kuko ntabwo
byumvikana ko impunzi birirwa ziri mu bihugu by’Afrika birirwa bazirukankana
bakazitahisha ku ngufu, impunzi zri i Burayi zavuga ngo zishaka gutaha ngo
muduhe impapuro zo gutaha, z’inzira bakanga kubaha impapuro z’inzira. Ntabwo
byumvikana. Nkaba nizeye ko icyo kibazo
kizakemurwa. Ikindi wibajije niba ishyaka rizakomeza gukorera hanze ntabwo
aribyo kuko twafashe icyemezo cyo kwimurira imirimo yacu yose ya politiki hano
mu Rwanda. Ni ukuvuga ko nta mirimo ya politiki ya FDU Inkingi izongera gukorerwa
hanze y’igihugu, imirimo ya politiki ya FDU-Inkingi yose izakorerwa hano mu
Rwanda. Mu Rwanda hari abanyarwanda, ni ishyaka ry’abanyarwanda, dufite
abayoboke kandi n’abandi bazadusanga ntabwo ibyo ari ikibazo.
VOA-KFM: Ukigera ku kibuga cy’indege hashize
akanya gato werekeje ku rwibutso uhavuye hari abanyarwanda benshi bababajwe
bitew n’amagambo wahavugiye. Abanyarwanda benshi bagiye yenda babazwa cyangwa
se bacyeya babajijwe byagaragaraga ko mu mvugo zabo bamaganaga ibyo wahavugiye.
Uzakorana gute n’abanyarwanda batangiye kukwamagana?
IUV: Ni ukureba abo banyarwanda ni
bangahe? Ni bande? Kuki
bavuze ibyo ngibyo ? Politiki ya hano mu gihugu turayizi. Mvuye i Burayi
ariko hano uko politiki ikorwa ndabizi. Kubwira umuntu hariya ngo hamagara
uvuge ibi, ubwo ni uburyo bwa politiki abantu bamwe badashaka. Icyo twebwe
tuvuga ni uko nta munyapolitiki n’umwe ugomba kwitwaza amahano yagwiriye
igihugu ngo ayitwaze ku mpamvu ze za politiki akumire abandi bantu. Ntabwo ibyo
ngibyo tuzabyemera muri FDU-Inkingi. Ku Gisozi icyo nahavugiye nabwiye
abanyarwanda yuko habaye itsembabwoko ry’abanyarwanda ko ariyo mpamvu nkigera
mu Rwanda ntashobora kuryama ntabanjje kugera ku rwibutso rutwibutsa ayo
marorerwa yabaye mu gihugu cyacu. Ariko nibukije yuko tutagomba guhagarira
kw’itsembabwoko ryakorewe abatutsi gusa, hari n’ibikorwa by’itsembatsemba
byakozwe. Ibyo bikorwa abo bantu nabo babikorewe bifuza ko nabo leta yabagenera
igihe cyo kwibuka ababo, ko nabo agahinda kabo abantu bakumva. Ikibazo rero
numvishije ni uko numvishe abantu benshi bavuga, nk’abantu bo muri Ibuka, ngo
ntabwo ibyo bintu bigomba kuvugwa. Ntabwo byumvikana ukuntu abantu bavuga ngo
ubwicanyi ubu n’ubu tubuvuge ariko ubundi bwicanyi tubwihorere. Abanyarwanda
twarababaye. Icyo nsaba abanyarwanda ni uko tugira ubutwari bwo gutinyuka
kureba amarorerwa yatubayeho. Nitwe nk’abanyrwanda twayagize. Ntabwo nemera ko
dutinyuka kuvuga ngo aya yaturutse ku bazungu cyangwa yaturutse ku bandi. Nta
muzuingu wafashe umuhoro ngo ajye gutema undi, nta muzungu wafashe Kalachnikov
ngo ajye gufungira abana mu ishuri abarasemo urufaya. Ibyo byakozwe
n’abanyarwanda hagati yacu ubwacu. Ukwo kuri tugomba kukwemera, ukwo kuri
tugomba kukureba, tugomba no gutinyuka gufata ingamba nyazo. Ariko ntabwo
twifuza ko hagira abantu kubera inyungu zabo za politiki, batuma abantu
batavuga icyo batekereza, bitwaje ibyo byago, ayo mahano yagwiriye
abanyarwanda. Ibyo ngibyo rwose bigomba gucika. N’abantu bariho mu bwoba kubera
ibyo bintu, nasabye abanyarwanda ko tugomba gushira ubwoba, tugatinyuka ibibazo
nk ‘ibyo ngibyo tukagira ubutwari bwo kubireba kuko nibyo byonyine bizadufasha kwubaka
igihugu cyacu, bikanaturinda ko urubyiruko rw’ejo hazaza rwazongera guhura
n’amarorerwa nk’ayo. Ariko kurenzaho, kurenza nk’urenza ivu k’umuriro, uwo muriro
umunsi umwe uzongera uturike. Twe rero icyo twifuza, n’uko abanyarwanda
badakomeza kurenzaho, ku gahinda bafite, ku kababaro bafite. Icyo twifuza ni
uko abanyarwanda mu kababaro bagize muri ayo makuba yagwiriye u Rwanda, abantu
bahabwe umwanya, bahabwe urubuga rwo kubivugaho, kugirango bashake uburyo ko
bakongera gufatana mu kagongo, bagashaka uburyo twazamura igihugu cyacu mu
mahoro, mu bwubahane.
VOA-KFM: Ngirango uravuga ibyo nka Victoire.
Victoire uvuga ko ashaka ko abanyarwanda bongera bagatera imbere, bongera
bakunga ubumwe, ni mumtu ki?
IUV: Ndubatse mfite abana batatu. Nkaba
narize hano mu Rwanda ibintu bijyanye n’ubucungamari. Nakoze muri minisiteri
y’ubucungamari muri douane mbere y’uko gukomeza kwiga mu Buholandi. Naho nizeyo
mu mashuri ya Kaminuza ibintu bijyanye n’ubucungamari. Nyuma nakorayo mu
isosiyeti y’abanyamerika nkarayo imyaka icyenda. Mukwa kane kw’uwaka washize
nibwo neguye, ku mirimo nakoraga yampeshaga umushahara kugirango nitegure kuza
gukorera politiki mu gihugu.
VOA-KFM: Sawa murakoze turabashimiye.
IUV: Namwe murakoze.
ICYITONDERWA:
Iyi nyandiko iri no mu cyongereza.
INDI NKURU BIJYANYE:
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