Rwanda: Ikiganiro Mme Victoire Ingabire Umuhoza yagiranye na Radiyo Ijwi Ry’Afrika Kigali FM

Ikiganiro Mme Victoire Ingabire Umuhoza yagiranye na

Radiyo Ijwi Ry’Afrika Kigali FM , tariki ya 21 Mutarama, 2010.

http://www.rwandahumanrights.org/docs/victoire_voa.mp3

VOA-KFM: Tubahaye ikaze muri studio za Voice of Africa Kigali FM (VOA-KFM). Njye nitwa Ildephonse Sinobabariraga. Nkora mu ishami ry’amakuru. Ngirango nifuzako mwatangira mutwibwira.

IUV: Murakoze kuba namwe mwantumiye muri studio yanyu. Nitwa Ingabire Umuhoza Victoire (IUV). Nkaba ndi umuyobozi w’ishyaka FDU-Inkingi ritarandikwa hano mu gihugu ariko nkaba naraje kuryandikisha.

VOA-KFM: Ngirango, mwaje mu Rwanda mumaze igihe kingana iki muruvuyemo?

IUV: Ngarutse mu Rwanda nyuma y’imyaka cumi n’itandatu nari maze ntarubamo.

VOA-KFM: None ngirango nyuma y’imyaka cumi n’itandatu umuntu ataba mu gihugu ni imyaka myinshi cyane. Mukiri i Buraya hari uburyo mwumvaga u Rwanda n’ubu noneho mumaze icyumweru murubamo mwaba hari ubundi buryo mumaze kurubona. Ibyo bintu mwabitugereranyiriza gute?

IUV: Mu by’ukuri urebye nasanze uko narutekerezaga ndi i Buraya n’uko narusanze ari kimwe. Icyo navuga yenda ni uko nasanze umujyi wa Kigali waragutse ukagera hirya. Ejo nari ku Gisenyi. Nasanze umujyi wa Gisenyi warashaje, n’imihanda yarashaje, ariko mu by’ukuri nko ku bibazo bireba igihugu, amakuru twabonaga turi i Burayi ni nako twasanze hano mu gihugu ahari kuko naje koko kuwa Gatandatu ariko urebye uko abantu bavuga ukareba n’abo nagiye mpura n’abo kuko ku Cyumweru nanyarukiye i Kabgayi i Gitarama hanyuma ejo nari ku Gisenyi, usanga ibibazo abantu bavuga uko twabibonaga turi i Burayi ninako n’imbere mu gihugu bimeze. Akaba ari nayo mpamvu yatumye dufata icyemezo cyo kuza gukorera politiki mu gihugu kuko dusanga ko ari ngombwa ko abanyarwanda twese hamwe dufatanyiriza hamwe kuzamura igihugu cyacu.

VOA-KFM: Ibyo bibazo by’ingenzi muvuga mwabonaga muri i Burayi n’ubu mukaba muvuga ko aho mugereye mu gihugu musanga bigihari ni nk’ibihe?

IUV: Ni ibibazo bijyanye n’ubwoba. Ubwoba kandi mvuga njye ko bufite ishingiro. Hari ubwoba bw’uko abanyarwanda batinya kuvuga icyo batekereza, uko babona ibibazo. Ubwo bwoba akenshi ugasanga buturuka ku makuba yagwiriye u Rwanda: itsembabwoko ryakorewe abatutsi muri 1994, hari ubwicanyi bwakorewe abahutu. Ibyo bintu ugasanga ndetse ari ibintu bataratinyuka kuvugaho. Kuko nabonye uko nabivuze nkigera mu gihugu, n’uburyo hari ibinyamakuru byinshi byihutiye kwandika ibyo ntavuze, ngasanga ari ikibazo gikomeye. Nk’uko nabivuze nasanze mu Rwanda ikibazo dufite gikomeye nyuma y’ako kaga kagwiriye u Rwanda ari ikibazo cy’ubwiyunge. Kuba inzira y’ubwiyunge itaratangira mu Rwanda nyuma y’imyaka 16 habaye itsembabwoko ry’abatutsi n’ibyo bikorwa by’ihonya ry’ikiremwa muntu byabaye hano mu Rwanda ubwo bwiyunge bukaba butaratangira nibyo ntandaro y’uko abantu bafite ubwoba. Hari ubwoba bwo kuvuga ko ngomba gukora uko nshoboye nkirwanaho ntavaho nzira icyo ndicyo, ntavaho nzira uwo ndiwe. Hakaba n’abandi bafite ubwoba bwo kuvuga bati ntabwo ntinyuka kuvuga batavaho babinziza. Ni ubwo bwoba nabonye mu bantu. Akaba ariyo mpamvu usanga ibinyamakuru byandika  ugasanga byanditse ibyo umuntu atavuze. Ni ubwo bwoba abantu bafite, kandi bufite ishingiro. Aribwo bwoba bavuga. Usanga hari abandi bavuga bakwihererana wababaza ibibazo bakakubwira bati ntacyo twavuga niyo tuvuze turabizira. Ku buryo rero usanga ari ibibazo bikomeye. Ndafata nk’urugero. Nk’ejo nasuye abagororwa bari muri prison yo ku Gisenyi. Muri abo bagororwa twahuye nabo navugako harimo ibice binyuranye. Hari abagororwa bavuga bati icyaha cy’itsembabwoko koko twaragikoze. Nanjye nababwiye y’uko niba koko barakoze icyaha cy’itsembabwoko ibihano bahawe bigomba kubaha akanya ko gutekereza no kumva ibyo byaha bakoze no kumva ko kizira ko umuntu avutsa undi ubuzima bwe. Ko bigomba kubabera isomo. Ariko hari n’abandi bagororwa bambwiye bati tumaze imyaka 7 dufunze nta dosiye ihari. Ukumva ko iki ari ikibazo gikomeye ko ahantu hari ubutegetsi mu gihugu hari ubutegetsi bw’ubutabera umuntu bamufunga imyaka irindwi batarashobora kubona ibimenyetso by’uko uwo muntu yakoze icyaha koko. Abantu nk’abo ngabo ntabwo ibintu biba byumvikana. Byerekana imikorere mibi itagenda neza. Ikindi hari n’abandi bavuze bati twafunzwe tuzizwa ingengabitekerezo. Hari umugabo wambwiye ati isambu yanjye bayubatsemo imidugugu batambwiye, nta nyishyu bampaye. Ibyo byanteye ikibazo. Mu gihe mbajije bahita bavuga ko ubwo nzanye ingebitekerezo ya jenoside baramfunga. Urumva ko hari ibibazo byinshi biterwa n’imyumvire mibi ariko iteka ukagaruka ugasanga ari ibibazo bituruka kuri cya kibazo twagize cy’intambara ikomeye, cy’ubwicanyi bukomeye bwabaye hagati y’abanyarwanda. Twebwe rero tukavuga tuti ibintu bigomba kwongera gutangirira ku ntangiriro. Ni ngombwa ko abanyarwanda dushirika ubwoba tukagira ubutwari bwo gutinyuka kuvuga ku byatubayeho. Ni ukuvuga ko ubutegetsi bahari bugomba kureka abantu bakabivuga. Kuko nabonye inyandiko zanditswe kenshi n’itangazamakuru rya leta mu by’ukuri ryanditse rikavuga ibyo ntavuze. Ugasanga ari uburyo mu by’ukuri ubwo butegetsi buhari burimo bukoresha kugirango bubuze abantu kuvuga. Kuvuga kugirango bavaho bavuga kuko wenda ikibabeshejeho n’icyo kinyoma bashingikiraho babwira abantu bati habaye itsembabwoko ntimubumbure umunwa ngo muvuge. Ntabwo ibyo bintu rero aribyo. Dutekereza ko igihe rero kigeze nyuma y’imyaka 16 iryo tsembabwoko ribaye mu gihugu cyacu ko abanyarwanda dutinyuka kuvuga kubyatubayeho. Habayeho itsembabwoko ry’abatutsi. Abarikoze bagomba kubihanirwa nk’uko ejo nabibwiye abanyururu nasuye. Abatararikoze ntabwo bagomba guhozwa ibyo batakoze. Abantu b’inzirakarengane bagomba gufungurwa. Ariko noneho bigatuma n’abanyarwanda muri rusange bongera kubaho mu bwisanzure mu gihugu cyabo. Ni ngombwa rero ko ibyo bintu tubivugaho.Ni ngombwa ko nk’abanyarwanda mu bitekerezo dufite binyuranye, mu moko anyuranye tuvamo mu madini anyuranye tuvamo, twemera ko tugomba kwicara hamwe tukumvikana ni mpamvu ki ubwo bwicanyi bwabaye, ni bande babikoze, twakora iki kugirango ubwo bwicanyi butazongera kubaho. Noneho icyo gihe ibyo bizadufasha kwumvikana uburyo twateza imbere igihugu cyacu. Kuko ntabwo ubwoba nabonye mu bantu, n’imyumvire y’abantu uko imeze, ishobora gutuma abanyarwanda batera imbere. N’ibyo turi kwubaka ubu ngubu twaba turi kwubaka k’umusenyi, n’ejo n’ejobundi byakongera bigasenyuka kuko iyo urebye imitima y’abantu n’ibibazo/intambara bafite mu mitima yabo kubera icyo kibazo kugeza ubu ng’ubu gisa n’aho bababwira ngo mucyubikeho ntimukivuge ugasanga bishobora guteza ibibazo mu minsi iri imbere.

Twebwe muri FDU tukavuga tuti rero abanyarwanda muri rusange tugomba gutinyuka icyo kibazo tukakivuga kugirango dutangire inzira y’ubwiyunge, kugirango dutangire gushakira ubumwe hamwe. Cyane icyo twifuza ni uko nk’abanyepolitiki tugiye hamwe tukavugana icyo kibazo dushake inzira igihugu cyacu cyayoborwa. Kuko n’ubwo bwicanyi bwose bwaturutse ku miyoborere mibi y’igihugu. Niba twumvikanye rero uburyo hagiyeho inzego z’ubuyobozi, uburyo abantu bajya mu nzego z’ubuyobozi, ibyo bizatuma n’ibura ubwo bwicanyi butazongera kubaho. Ibyo bizaha abaturarwanda icyizere ko ubutegetsi buriho bubabereyeho, atrai ubutegetsi bubereyeho agatsiko aka n’aka, atari ubutegetsi bubereyeho ubwoko ubu n’ubu, atari ubutegetsi bubereyeho akarere aka n’aka, ariko ari ubutegitsi bubereyeho buri munyarwanda wese, ku buryo buri munyarwanda wese abwisangamo, umunyrwanda ntiyongere gutinya kuvuga mu gihugu cye.

VOA-KFM: Ariko ikibazo kimwe. Ibyo ni bimwe unenga uvuga ko bitagenda. Ariko noneho bimwe mu byo wavuga wageze mu Rwanda ushima mu myaka 16 jenoside ibaye noneho byaba byassrakozwe na leta iriho ni nk’ibihe?

IUV: Ndumva ako atari akazi kanjye ko gushima leta iriho. Bafite abantu babo babishinzwe bo kubavugira. Ndumva atari akazi kanjye. Twe icyatuzanye mu gihugu ni ugukora polilitiki yo gukosora ibyo tubona bitagenda neza. Naho abo kuvuga ibigwi ubutegetsi buriho, bafite abantu babo ndumva aribo bazabavuga ibigwi.

VOA-KFM: Ngirango noneho tugere ku kibazo cy’ishyaka ryanyu FDU-Inkingi. Ni ishyaka ryari risanzwe rikorera hanze muvuga ko muje kuryandikisha. Ndetse ngirango mwanatangaje ko muteganya kuzaba umukandida mu matora ya perezida wa repubulika muhagariye ishyaka ryanyu. Ubu mu cyumweru mumaze mu gihugu mwaba mwari mwatangira inzira zo kugira ngo mushake uburyo muryandikisha? Mwaba mwiteguye se ko rizemerwa mu minsi ya vuba?

IUV: Murakoze. Muri iyi minsi ya mbere icyo nifuje nk’uko nabivuze nagiye i Kabgayi nagiye ku Gisenyi, nteganaya no kujya hirya no hino, ni ukubanza kureba mu gihugu wa mugani isura y’urugo.Wenda ndavuga nkurikije ibyo nabonye muri utwo duce tubiri maze kugendamo, ariko yenda ninjya ahandi nzahasanga ibindi. Ni byiza rero twifuje ko iminsi ya mbere umuntu yabanza kureba mu by’ukuri aho igihugu kigeze wa mugani, n’ibyo bibazo uko biri hanyuma nyuma umuntu akaraba uko yafatanya n’abanyarwanda bari hano mu gihugu tugashaka uburyo twasaba ko ishyaka ryacu ryakwandikwa. Ubundi amategeko avuga ko ishyaka ryemerwa mu gihe cy’ukwezi kumwe n’ubwo kugeza ubu bigaragara ko atariko bimeze kuko nafata urugero kuri ririya shyaka riharanira ibidukikije na demokarasi mu Rwanda (Green Party). Iyo urebye igihe rimaze risabye kwandikwa n’ingorane ryagiye rihura nazo, usanga natwe twiteguye ko izo ngorane dushobora kuzahura nazo. Ariko tukaba tuzeye ko ubutegetsi , abafite ubutegetsi bagomba kumva ko igihe kigeze cyo gushimangira amahame ya demokrasi mu Rwanda. Ntabwo abantu bashobora gukomeza kuvuga ngo kubera ko mu Rwanda habaye itsembabwoko ntabwo amarembo ya politiki afunguye. Kuko bagomba kumva ko iryo tsembabwoko ryabayeho kubera ko hari abantu bari bihariye ubutegetsi ntibashake guha rugari abandi, ntibashake guha abandi urubuga, ngo abantu bisanzure. Nkaba ntekereza ko ubutegetsi buriho ubu ibyo bubibona, bubyumva, budashobora gukora ikosa nk’iryo abandi bakoze, ngo fungirane abantu bukomeze bufunge amarembo, bubuze abantui kwisanzura cyangwa gukora politiki uko babyumva. Nkaba nizera rero ntashidikanya ko ishyaka ryacu rizandikwa kuko nta mpamvu mbona kugeza ubu ngubu ishyaka ritazandikwa.

VOA-KFM: Kandi wavuze ko nk’ishyaka Green Party uvuga ko ryo rigiye kumara igihe kirenze ukwezi ritaremerwa. Ikikwemeza ko ishyaka ryawe rizemerwa mu gihe kigeze k’umwezi cyangwa kirenzeho gatoya ni ikihe?

IUV: Nta cyemezo mfite ariko nta n’ubwo nshaka gucira urubanza abashinzwe kwandika ishyaka, ngo mvuge ngo ntibazanyemerera kandi ntarasaba urwo ruhushya. Ibyo byaba ari ugucira urubanza ku bintu badahari. Igihe bazaba banze kuryandika, bazasobanura impamvu banze kuryandika. Icyo gihe yenda twazabivugaho. Ariko ubu ng’ubu nemeza ko nta mpamvumvu n’imwe mbona batakwandika ishyaka, nta n’impamvu mbona nacira urubanza abantu ubu ngubu mvuga ngo ntimuzaryandika.

VOA-KFM: Tukiri kuri iki cy’ishyaka uretse wowe waje kuryandikisha nk’umuntu urihagarariye hano mu Rwanda ukaza ukaza kuryandikisha umuntu yakwibaza ati se abandi muri kumwe nk’ishyaka nabo barahari cyangwe se nabo barateganya kuza mu Rwanda cyangwa se niwowe gusa waje kwandikisha ishyaka ubundi rikaba ryakorera yo?

IUV: Ndagirango nibutse ko abantu twazanye, nazanye n’abantu bane ntabwo naje ndi njyenyine ariko hari abandi barwanashyaka basigaye inyuma ku mpamvu twakunze nazo kuvuga mu minsi yashize kubera ko abenshi ari impunzi, basabye impapuro z’inzira zo kugirango babashe kugaruka mu gihugu cyabo kugeza ubu izo mpapuro ntiziraboneka. Nkaba nizera ko mu minsi iri imbere tuzajya kureba abantu bashinzwe abinjira n’abasohoka tukababaza impamvu abo bantu batarahabwa impapuro z’inzira. Kuko ntabwo byumvikana ko impunzi birirwa ziri mu bihugu by’Afrika birirwa bazirukankana bakazitahisha ku ngufu, impunzi zri i Burayi zavuga ngo zishaka gutaha ngo muduhe impapuro zo gutaha, z’inzira bakanga kubaha impapuro z’inzira. Ntabwo byumvikana.  Nkaba nizeye ko icyo kibazo kizakemurwa. Ikindi wibajije niba ishyaka rizakomeza gukorera hanze ntabwo aribyo kuko twafashe icyemezo cyo kwimurira imirimo yacu yose ya politiki hano mu Rwanda. Ni ukuvuga ko nta mirimo ya politiki ya FDU Inkingi izongera gukorerwa hanze y’igihugu, imirimo ya politiki ya FDU-Inkingi yose izakorerwa hano mu Rwanda. Mu Rwanda hari abanyarwanda, ni ishyaka ry’abanyarwanda, dufite abayoboke kandi n’abandi bazadusanga ntabwo ibyo ari ikibazo.

VOA-KFM: Ukigera ku kibuga cy’indege hashize akanya gato werekeje ku rwibutso uhavuye hari abanyarwanda benshi bababajwe bitew n’amagambo wahavugiye. Abanyarwanda benshi bagiye yenda babazwa cyangwa se bacyeya babajijwe byagaragaraga ko mu mvugo zabo bamaganaga ibyo wahavugiye. Uzakorana gute n’abanyarwanda batangiye kukwamagana?

IUV: Ni ukureba abo banyarwanda ni bangahe? Ni bande? Kuki bavuze ibyo ngibyo ? Politiki ya hano mu gihugu turayizi. Mvuye i Burayi ariko hano uko politiki ikorwa ndabizi. Kubwira umuntu hariya ngo hamagara uvuge ibi, ubwo ni uburyo bwa politiki abantu bamwe badashaka. Icyo twebwe tuvuga ni uko nta munyapolitiki n’umwe ugomba kwitwaza amahano yagwiriye igihugu ngo ayitwaze ku mpamvu ze za politiki akumire abandi bantu. Ntabwo ibyo ngibyo tuzabyemera muri FDU-Inkingi. Ku Gisozi icyo nahavugiye nabwiye abanyarwanda yuko habaye itsembabwoko ry’abanyarwanda ko ariyo mpamvu nkigera mu Rwanda ntashobora kuryama ntabanjje kugera ku rwibutso rutwibutsa ayo marorerwa yabaye mu gihugu cyacu. Ariko nibukije yuko tutagomba guhagarira kw’itsembabwoko ryakorewe abatutsi gusa, hari n’ibikorwa by’itsembatsemba byakozwe. Ibyo bikorwa abo bantu nabo babikorewe bifuza ko nabo leta yabagenera igihe cyo kwibuka ababo, ko nabo agahinda kabo abantu bakumva. Ikibazo rero numvishije ni uko numvishe abantu benshi bavuga, nk’abantu bo muri Ibuka, ngo ntabwo ibyo bintu bigomba kuvugwa. Ntabwo byumvikana ukuntu abantu bavuga ngo ubwicanyi ubu n’ubu tubuvuge ariko ubundi bwicanyi tubwihorere. Abanyarwanda twarababaye. Icyo nsaba abanyarwanda ni uko tugira ubutwari bwo gutinyuka kureba amarorerwa yatubayeho. Nitwe nk’abanyrwanda twayagize. Ntabwo nemera ko dutinyuka kuvuga ngo aya yaturutse ku bazungu cyangwa yaturutse ku bandi. Nta muzuingu wafashe umuhoro ngo ajye gutema undi, nta muzungu wafashe Kalachnikov ngo ajye gufungira abana mu ishuri abarasemo urufaya. Ibyo byakozwe n’abanyarwanda hagati yacu ubwacu. Ukwo kuri tugomba kukwemera, ukwo kuri tugomba kukureba, tugomba no gutinyuka gufata ingamba nyazo. Ariko ntabwo twifuza ko hagira abantu kubera inyungu zabo za politiki, batuma abantu batavuga icyo batekereza, bitwaje ibyo byago, ayo mahano yagwiriye abanyarwanda. Ibyo ngibyo rwose bigomba gucika. N’abantu bariho mu bwoba kubera ibyo bintu, nasabye abanyarwanda ko tugomba gushira ubwoba, tugatinyuka ibibazo nk ‘ibyo ngibyo tukagira ubutwari bwo kubireba  kuko nibyo byonyine bizadufasha kwubaka igihugu cyacu, bikanaturinda ko urubyiruko rw’ejo hazaza rwazongera guhura n’amarorerwa nk’ayo. Ariko kurenzaho, kurenza nk’urenza ivu k’umuriro, uwo muriro umunsi umwe uzongera uturike. Twe rero icyo twifuza, n’uko abanyarwanda badakomeza kurenzaho, ku gahinda bafite, ku kababaro bafite. Icyo twifuza ni uko abanyarwanda mu kababaro bagize muri ayo makuba yagwiriye u Rwanda, abantu bahabwe umwanya, bahabwe urubuga rwo kubivugaho, kugirango bashake uburyo ko bakongera gufatana mu kagongo, bagashaka uburyo twazamura igihugu cyacu mu mahoro, mu bwubahane.

VOA-KFM: Ngirango uravuga ibyo nka Victoire. Victoire uvuga ko ashaka ko abanyarwanda bongera bagatera imbere, bongera bakunga ubumwe, ni mumtu ki?

IUV: Ndubatse mfite abana batatu. Nkaba narize hano mu Rwanda ibintu bijyanye n’ubucungamari. Nakoze muri minisiteri y’ubucungamari muri douane mbere y’uko gukomeza kwiga mu Buholandi. Naho nizeyo mu mashuri ya Kaminuza ibintu bijyanye n’ubucungamari. Nyuma nakorayo mu isosiyeti y’abanyamerika nkarayo imyaka icyenda. Mukwa kane kw’uwaka washize nibwo neguye, ku mirimo nakoraga yampeshaga umushahara kugirango nitegure kuza gukorera politiki mu gihugu.

VOA-KFM: Sawa murakoze turabashimiye.

IUV: Namwe murakoze.


ICYITONDERWA: 
Iyi nyandiko iri no mu cyongereza.

INDI NKURU BIJYANYE:

GISOZI : IJAMBO RYA VICTOIRE INGABIRE UMUHOZA